Jocelyn Pedersen: A Journey Through Medication and Madness Toward Meaning

Until I started doing this podcast, I was mostly ignorant to the extent of the harm sometimes caused by psychiatric and antibiotic medications. In spite of my own 2 week experience with disabling withdrawal symptoms from an antidepressant 20 years ago, and contemporary reports of withdrawal symptoms from friends and clients, I still had no idea how pervasive - and sometimes permanent - these brain injuries were.

As frightening as that was to learn, the prescriptions for psychiatric medication for depression and anxiety have soared in during the COVID pandemic. 

And let’s face it folks, we are still in the early stages of the pandemic - if we get blue skies with double rainbows we may have a vaccine in 18 months, but that’s really wishful thinking - the global economy has taken an unprecedented hit, and that means many people’s jobs and financial security are going to be at further risk. This will only add to the feelings of anxiety -- but let’s be clear, it is normal to feel anxious about how the world is suddenly changing in so many ways. Learning coping skills, having strategies to feel more safe in an unknown future, and using supportive relationships are natural ways to feel better about feeling anxious.

In this episode, we hear what happened to Jocelyn Pedersen after taking a benzodiazepine for less than a week.

Jocelyn was so physically sick from the benzo brain injury, she had to spend much of the time horizontal on the floor with her baby while her neighbour’s helped with household chores. Jocelyn’s body was a complete mess: she couldn’t sleep, eat, watch tv, read, her bowels were dysfunctional and she was losing weight fast.

That’s just the start of Jocelyn’s journey with benzodiazepine medications -- a medication journey, as Jocelyn describes, that goes through madness.

Jocelyn’s health care experience is a textbook example of how the medical system pushes psychiatric medications without understanding how the meds can cause brain injury. This often leads to doctors denying side effects or withdrawal symptoms, effectively gaslighting the patient, psychologizing physical symptoms, and pathologizing human emotions.

It was a long arduous road for Jocelyn to get back to her usual high functioning self, and along the way she started sharing her experiences and what she learned and now Jocelyn has a large following on social media. On her YouTube channel Benzo Brains, Jocelyn shares real world information about benzodiazepines and strategies on successfully managing the withdrawal symptoms.

Jocelyn has just written a memoir about her experiences with benzos and the health care system called “Seeds of Hope: A Journey Through Medication and Madness Toward Meaning”.

Available on Amazon: https://t.co/267G0VaBiz?amp=1

Connect with Jocelyn Pedersen:

People can pre-order Seeds of Hope: A Journey Through Medication and Madness Toward Meaning through moongladepress.com and when it's released June 1st on Amazon.com: https://t.co/267G0VaBiz?amp=1 My channel is YouTube.com/c/BenzoBrains Some other helpful resources are benzoreform.org benzoinfo.com benzo.org.uk/manual councilforsustainablehealing.org

SHOW NOTES:

	About Jocelyn Pedersen: After experiencing a severe injury to her brain and body from prescription medications, Jocelyn co-founded the non-profit, Benzodiazepine Information Coalition. She is a speaker at CME's and continuing education courses for doctors and healthcare providers on the dangers of benzodiazepines and how to help patients safely withdraw. Jocelyn is also subject in the upcoming As Prescribed documentary film and the author of Seeds of Hope: a Journey through medication and madness toward meaning. When she's not busy managing her Benzo Brains YouTube channel or serving as an advisor to The Alliance for Benzodiazepine Best Practices and The Council for Sustainable Healing, you can find her rocking out to big band music and forcing her kids to watch MGM musicals with her.
0:06:00	Jocelyn grew up in Pueblo, Colorado and her childhood was mixture of good and bad things, mental and physical abuse - but also grew up with a lot of spiritual support at Church of Jesus Christ of Later Day Saints and it stabilized her and taught her to overcome
0:07:00	Jocelyn got an academic scholarship to Brigham Young University so she moved to Utah and she loved college and graduated with a BS (Bachelor of Science) in childhood educations - college was a way to escape and re-start her life
0:08:00	Jocelyn got married and they moved to North Carolina and they had their first baby, but he passed away, so they decided to move closer to family for support and moved to Utah
0:09:00	Jocelyn started teaching at a local school for 2 years until she got pregnant again - she writes about her experience in her memoir that will be released in June: "Seeds of Hope: A Journey through medication and madness toward meaning" -- a couple of years later she had another baby, a girl to go with a boy
0:10:00	Jocelyn's father was a chiropractor so she grew up with a healthy distrust of allo medicine - but her story really starts when Jocelyn sought out a sleeping pill from her doctor - her baby daughter was in the hospital with meningitis, and then her toddler son was admitted to the hospital twice, so Jocelyn was not getting enough sleep - the economy was bad at the time, her husband was out of work
0:11:00	The doctor prescribed Ambien and assured Jocelyn it wouldn't pass through her breast milk to her baby - Jocelyn doesn't like taking medications, but thought she'd take it temporarily to get back into her sleep cycle
0:12:00	But within a couple of days, Jocelyn could tell her baby daughter was being affected by the Ambien - after 5 or 6 days Jocelyn stopped the Ambien and that's when things fell apart and her insomnia got much worse, she had ringing in her ears, running to the bathroom all the time, couldn't eat, losing weight, couldn't read a book, watch tv, and suddenly also had pain and couldn't even go for a walk
0:13:00	Jocelyn had a bunch of tests done but they all came back normal, so no explanation, except being told 'you have post partum depression', or 'you're having a nervous breakdwon', or 'you have anxiety' - but Jocelyn knew about depression from the death of her first baby, and this wasn't that
0:14:00	After about 4 months of literally lying on the floor with her baby and neighbours coming by to help - Jocelyn had been a high energy person: running, yoga, working out - but then she started to get suicidal thoughts
0:15:00	Jocelyn was told by the doctor she had major depressive disorder and an anxiety disorder and was given Effexor and Ativan - the first day she took the meds she slept well for the first time in 4 months - only later would Jocelyn realize that Ativan is practically the same as Ambien
0:16:00	So the Ativan stabilized the injury from the Ambien - originally Jocelyn was only to take the Ativan for a brief period, but the doctor increased the dose to 2 mg - 'it was like magic', Jocelyn felt better, like her old self, except for the pain, which was diagnosed as Fibromyalgia, and she was given Cymbalta for the pain - so for the most port Jocelyn was able to lead a normal life, she was a believer that she must have needed the meds
0:17:00	Jocelyn had studied and learned a lot about natural medicine and didn't like the idea of continuing to take Cymbalta, and it put weight on her
0:18:00	But the doctor would say, 'don't stop the Cymbalta until you've stopped the Ativan, now Lorazepam - but every time she tried to cut down, her symptoms would get worse, she couldn't sleep - so she stayed on them for another 3 years - but eventually tried to wean off again - she did stop progesterone cold turkey and got really sick
0:19:00	Her blood pressure sky rocketed, she gained a lot of weight, and falling asleep in the middle of the day - so she cold turkeyed it and the first time she experienced full on crazy, shaking all the time, and couldn't function
0:20:00	Jocelyn realized later the Cymbalta had really messed with her blood sugar and that's why she had put on so much weight - Jocelyn successfully weaned of the Cymbalta, but was still taking Lorazepam at night, but she and her husband wanted to have another baby but the literature said that Lorazepam could cause birth defects - they decided to go ahead and try to have another baby and that Jocelyn would try to taper off the Lorazepam
0:21:00	But Jocelyn later learned it doesn't really cause birth defects, but can cause of miscarriages if stopped to fast - Jocelyn did get pregnant and started to taper by 1/8th
0:22:00	Just cutting an 1/8th of a mg caused intense disabling symptoms: couldn't shower, read, watch tv, losing weight, and anxiety of a whole other dimension
0:23:00	It was torture, and then she had to cut the dose again, and then again - by the time Jocelyn got to half way she was ready to give up and kill herself because she couldn't handle the unending torture - luckily her husband started researching online - because Jocelyn couldn't - and found BenzoBuddies.org and Benzo.org.uk and he found the Ashton Manual, which a lot of people use to withdraw
0:24:00	They realized that Jocelyn wasn't crazy and that a lot of people were having the same experiences - and Jocelyn was probably tapering too fast - Ativan has a half life, so Jocelyn would experience sudden symptom onsets daily - so she switched to a longer lasting benzo to complete her taper
0:25:00	At the time, Jocelyn was too sick to go to the doctor - the next time she saw a doctor was at the ER when she thought she was having a miscarriage - they brought the Ashton Manual and requested Valium to stabilize Jocelyn, the doctor was resistant but finally agreed
0:26:00	The Valium provided some relief, but it was still hell and she didn't feel like she was going to take her own life - her family has seen Jocelyn struggle with Ambien withdrawal a few years before, and hearing the testimonials of others, helped them all to understand
0:27:00	Jocelyn had been drug injured with Ambien, but misdiagnosed with anxiety and depression - Jocelyn's doctor, a friend of the family, did not recognize withdrawal symptoms of Ambien
0:28:00	Jocelyn did have a miscarriage, which she is thankful for in some ways as she wasn't well enough to take care of a newborn at the time - Jocelyn continued to taper
0:29:00	Jocelyn tried various versions of tapering before discovering water titration, which she shows how to do on her YouTube channel - she had learned that in Facebook support groups - Jocelyn did reach out to mainstream medicine, she has a chapter in her book called 'Physician Heal Thyself' - all the doctors thought they knew about withdrawal, but none of them did, and none of them had read the Ashton Manual
0:30:00	One doctor told Jocelyn that she just couldn't handle being a Mom and should take some Prozac - the only doctor who was reasonable was Jocelyn's family doctor, but all he was willing to do was to prescribe the Valium
0:31:00	But when he was gone and Jocelyn had to deal with one of the other providers at his clinic, she was given the 3rd degree every time - it took Jocelyn about 18 months to taper off 13 mg dose of Valium - the newer benzos are many multiples more powerful then Valium, yet its the the Valium doctors are hesitant to prescribe
0:32:00	Jocelyn had to learn to accept where she was during the taper, that she had a brain injury - she also had support with the kids during the day, when her son started back to school...
0:33:00	she reached out to people in her church community and a different family came over each day to help her - Jocelyn does not know how she could have managed without community support because her husband was working 2 jobs
0:34:00	The big turning point for Jocelyn was finding a functional medicine doctor, a ND (Naturopathic Doctor) - she found one in her area and helped her with her benzo belly - he did tests that allopathic doctors don't do
0:35:00	He was able to pinpoint deficiencies - she started on a high protein diet because she was hypoglecemic - after about a week on his protocol Jocelyn started improving a lot, sleeping well
0:36:00	Then her son was prescribed an antibiotic and it injured him - it was like deja vu: once again no doctor is believing them - turns out her son developed an autoimmune illness and is allergic to everything - he was a normal boy, running and playing, then suddenly he's in a wheelchair and crying out in pain every few minutes
0:37:00	The paedeatric allergist said her son always had the autoimmune illness, refused to believe it was caused by an antibiotic - but the functional medicine doctor was able to help cut down on the inflammation and allergic reactions, but they are still figuring it out - he has a lot of trauma from that, and from a Mom who was disabled twice in his life - Jocelyn had to learn not to give power to health providers, and to heal herself
0:38:00	Yoga, meditation, diet, stem cell therapy for trigeminal pain -- nerve pain in her face -- it literally hurt to breath - the stem cell was very helpful, but she has to go back every 4 months or so as the pain comes back
0:39:00	How can someone help you if they don't even believe you? -- some doctors are open, but plenty are just closed minded
0:40:00	During her taper, Jocelyn was asked to be a moderator of a Facebook group, so she helped people find resources - then another friend asked her start another group to help people apply for disability or medical malpractice suits or correct medical records - Jocelyn realized they needed some 'weight' behind them, as they were 'just' sick patients, so Jocelyn suggested they start a non-profit
0:41:00	The Benzodiazepine Information Coalition - but then her son got sick and she had to step back to care for and home school him - but it was toward the end of her taper that she made her first Youtube video, just for her friends in the support group - and it got lots of shares - then when she was frustrated with doctors she made another video and that was picked up by Mad in America, and things just picked up
0:42:00	Her videos help people with brain injuries and their families get the support then needed - her Youtube channel is Benzo Brains - Jocelyn is doing really well. now, living life fully - she does get more stressed out physically
0:43:00	Her body is kind of delicate now, but she is really happy, with peace and joy - but if she doesn't get enough sleep or eat write, a dark blanket descends on her brain, but she knows it is only temporary - but it is painful having a son who is still suffering, but she's not coming from a place of fear
0:44:00	Jocelyn believes the suicidal thoughts that came from withdrawal are product of the medications causing the repeated thought 'kill yourself, kill yourself, kill yourself'
0:45:00	Most of the people dealing with withdrawal are good people, just doing what your doctor told you - Jocelyn was asked to speak in 2017 at the benzodaizipine medical symposium for doctors
0:46:00	Jocelyn met a lot of wonderful people, including a woman, a benzo survivor, who asked Jocelyn to write a book - initially Jocelyn declined but then thought it could be a good tool to get the message out there
0:47:00	It took a while to write while taking care of kids and her own healing journey, but it will be published June 1st - Seeds of Hope: A journey through madness, medication and meaning - she wants to give people hope that are in the same situation
0:48:00	The publisher approached Jocelyn to write the book - some of her benzo awareness efforts have been black balled by google or facebook or youtube
0:49:00	Obviously there are forces out there they do not want this information in the public spere, but Jocelyn believes there also people out there that know something is wrong - benzo perscriptions have increased 10 fold over the last decade - doctors are just substituting benzos for opiates - so big pharma's profits increased by 10 fold - since COVID, anxiety meds prescriptions have increased 34%
0:50:00	Alliance of Benzo Best Practices is a group of doctors who understand, and researchers who want to do research for the FDA to change recommendations, and to re-educate doctors on these drugs
0:51:00	The stuff pharma puts out, does not warn people about what these drugs can do
	Connect with Jocelyn Pedersen:
	People can pre-order Seeds of Hope: A Journey Through Medication and Madness Toward Meaning through moongladepress.com and when it's released June 1st on Amazon.com: https://t.co/267G0VaBiz?amp=1 My channel is YouTube.com/c/BenzoBrains Some other helpful resources are benzoreform.org benzoinfo.com benzo.org.uk/manual councilforsustainablehealing.org

 

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I am always looking for guests to share their medical error experiences so we help bring awareness and make patients safer.

If you are a survivor, a victim’s surviving family member, a health care worker, advocate, researcher or policy maker and you would like to share your experiences, please send me an email with a brief description:  RemediesPodcast@gmail.com 

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Like me, many of my clients at Remedies Counseling have experienced the often devastating effects of medical error.

If you need a counsellor for your experience with medical error, or living with a chronic illness(es), I offer online video counseling appointments.

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Email me to learn more or book an appointment:  RemediesOnlineCounseling@gmail.com

Scott Simpson: 

Counsellor + Patient Advocate + (former) Triathlete

I am a counsellor, patient advocate, and - before I became sick and disabled - a passionate triathlete. Work hard. Train hard. Rest hard.

I have been living with HIV since 1998. I was the first person living with HIV to compete at the triathlon world championships.

Thanks to research and access to medications, HIV is not a problem in my life.

I have been living with ME (myalgic encephalomyelitis) since 2012, and thanks in part to medical error, it is a big problem in my life.

Counseling / Research

I first became aware of the ubiquitousness of medical error during a decade of community based research working with the HIV Prevention Lab at Ryerson University, where I co-authored two research papers on a counseling intervention for people living with HIV, here and here. 

Patient participants would often report varying degrees of medical neglect, error and harms as part of their counseling sessions.

Patient Advocacy

I am co-founder of the ME patient advocacy non-profit Millions Missing Canada, and on the Executive Committee of the Interdisciplinary Canadian Collaborative Myalgic Encephalomyelitis Research Network.

I am also a patient advisor for Health Quality Ontario’s Patient and Family Advisory Council, and member of Patients for Patient Safety Canada.

Medical Error Interviews podcast and vidcast emerged to give voice to victims, witnesses and participants in this hidden epidemic so we can create change toward a safer health care system.

My golden retriever Gladys is a constant source of love and joy. I hope to be well enough again one day to race triathlons again. Or even shovel the snow off the sidewalk.